So, let’s start with getting to know you both a bit better. Can you tell us how you teamed up in the first place and what it’s like working together today to champion neuro-inclusive and environmentally sustainable design?

Julie: “Sure. Perkins&Will embodies Living Design, and that’s where we bring it all together. Both design, poetry, you know, all of the wonderful aspects of the design process, but also our sustainability goals, our resilience and wellbeing goals for the the whole human. And so that really drives so much of what we do in our solutions.

I had a client who was also very keyed in to all that sustainability and resilience and all of the components of Living Design, and they actually pushed us to dig a little deeper. And that’s how we arrived at really bringing neurodiversity into this Living Design model as another way for us to make sure that our spaces respond to a multitude of users and are ultimately universally designed.

Kati and I have a really interesting dynamic and it’s been so refreshing, so many, many, many years into my career, to be paired with someone who comes from a completely different perspective, but is so, so excited about talking about and promoting and engaging on this topic. And so, as a practitioner pairing with a researcher and bringing new content, new ideas to our clients, it is just—it’s a goosebump moment. It’s really refreshing and it makes coming to work great. And so that’s also part of just having a really healthy, you know, mindset about work and what we do. And so it’s been a joy.”

Kati: “Oh, Julie, you’re going to make me cry! I think, to respond to that and reflect on our relationship a little bit, it’s also been really powerful for me to partner with a practitioner who can actually take some of these ideas out of research and really implement them into practice and be an advocate with our clients, making sure that we are not just talking about this and publicizing it, but actually implementing it and helping our clients understand deeply why this is important.

One of the other things that I love about Perkins&Will is that we are champions for research-engaged practice and practice-engaged research. So Julie brought me in to better understand how neuro-inclusive environments actually impact their occupants and how we might extend the use of the original neurodiversity toolkit to other projects and other practice areas.”

Julie, if you had to describe environmentally sustainable design using just three words, what would they be and why?

Julie: “Sure. I think the first one is longevity. We have a long road ahead of us on this sustainable road that we’re on, and we have to be considerate of the big rock that we live on. And so we need to keep the long game, the goal in mind always. And I think we have tons of work to do; that journey is long. Resilience or regeneration—they do have different definitions, but they’re kind of pointing to the same thing: it’s like, how do we make sure that things are always reusable, can recover from anything that might impact them? And this has to do a lot with, you know, how do we avoid throwing things away? How do we find new uses for all the pieces and parts that go into that built environment? And we know that construction waste is a huge portion of that. And the other one is again associated closely with this topic that’s so dear to Kati and I, and that’s equity and inclusion. I think it’s a huge part of human wellbeing, and our mental health is something that sometimes falls lower in the chain of command for our designs and it shouldn’t. It really should be top of mind and we want to be really sensitive to that.”

So, Kati, designers are often seen as trendsetters. How can they leverage their influence to promote environmentally sustainable and inclusive choices in everyday projects? Do you have any examples where you’ve seen this in action that you would like to share with us now?

Kati: “Designers lead the conversation with clients, and so we’re in a fabulous position to introduce clients to concepts that they might not be familiar with. Our design teams, like Julie mentioned, are experts in energy use, material health, adaptive reuse, neurodiversity, among others. What I love about the neurodiversity movement in design is that it is rooted in sustainability. So we’re having two sides of the same conversations, both internally within our project teams and externally with our clients. Just like a biodiverse ecosystem is the key to environmental health, a neurodiverse workforce or school or hospital is key to a rich creative environment. So I love that Julie mentioned diversity as a keyword in sustainability work right now, and is really serving as not just a trendsetter, but a leader in these conversations.”

Thank you, Kati. And when selecting products for a project, what are the key factors you consider to ensure they meet environmental sustainability goals? Julie?

Julie: “The big picture here is that healthy environments support human health and wellness, and we spend most of our time inside. So anything that impacts that interior environment needs to really embrace health and wellness. And when we have products that manufacturers have vetted, have offered, have considered through mindful materials or cradle-to-cradle or any of the other terrific third-party organizations that are out there helping companies really think about and strategize and produce products that are environmentally conscious—that is so helpful for us as designers. It gives us a great amount of confidence; it allows us to specify something that we know is vetted, but also that isn’t customized. We can’t customize everything, but we can take a variety of really unique parts and pieces and bring those together for a unique design for a client. And that is so helpful.”

And Kati, what factors do you consider to ensure neuro-inclusivity goals are met?

Kati: “As I mentioned earlier, sustainability and neuro-inclusion and universal design are really two sides of the same coin. When we talk about neuro-inclusive design, we reference five categories. Sensory wellness is the biggest factor, of course, which includes acoustics, thermal comfort, lighting, even your tactile experience in a space. But there are also other characteristics that influence neurodivergent occupants, including social balance, predictability, safety, and flexibility. Often designers are only considering the sensory elements of a space, which is huge, but it’s definitely not the whole story. Simply including a sensory room doesn’t address really important issues of security and predictability across your broader space beyond just a single sensory area or a sensory room. Social interaction, for example, happens in all areas of the building. So the way we implement these categories is different depending on the building typology, but the factors remain the same across all of our facilities.”

Amazing, that was really insightful. Thank you Julie and thank you Kati. I’d like to talk trends now. What are some emerging trends in environmentally sustainable and also inclusive design that you are particularly excited about? And how do you see these shaping the future of the industry?

Julie: “I’ll jump on that one first. And, you know, I always shy away from the word ‘trends’. I think about it more as what’s influencing our industry and those of our clients. And in the United States, ESG reporting for all public companies is now required. That ESG represents environmental, social, and governance. The E and the S have components that the built environment can support. And that is what I’m finding is making companies really become aware. And while it’s only required for public companies, there are plenty of private companies, including Perkins&Will, who are producing ESG reporting to support and encourage this kind of reporting, this kind of information, because it’s looking at those qualitative pieces of a company that people are really, really paying more attention to, not just the financial achievements. So I would say that that’s probably what’s promoting our Living Design values the most right now.”

Kati: “And I wholeheartedly agree with Julie, especially when we’re thinking about design strategies that impact the human experience and the human condition. It can’t just be a trend; it needs to be something that evolves into best practice and design process and practice in general. So I think neuro-inclusion is just the next step in accessibility. It’s not a fleeting trend, but it should be integrated in our design process as we create more inclusive and accessible spaces. And this is beyond access for physical disabilities. Anyone can become temporarily disabled; it could be through a physical injury, for instance, or even a cognitive injury like a concussion. So neuro-inclusive spaces help us respond to those needs.”

So new technologies like artificial intelligence are of course revolutionizing many industries, including design. But how do you see these advancements helping us create more sustainable and inclusive items or spaces? Are there any other specific technologies or tools, for example, that you find particularly promising or transformative?

Kati: “As a researcher, I am most excited about the potential of environmental sensors. We’ve had these forever; sensors are nothing new. But the next big step is distributing this data, our environmental information, to occupants in a really meaningful way over time. This is the next step in really understanding our human-environment relationships. How do we act on our environment and how does our environment act on us? Imagine a visual dashboard, like in a workplace, that shows real-time energy and waste data while also maybe indicating areas of the facility that might be more crowded or more quiet. So this is both enabling sustainable decision-making and also neuro-inclusive decisions as well.”

Julie: “I think we’re just beginning to scratch the surface on what AI can do to support architects and designers. But what I think I’m most excited about and how I’m using it is really as a resource. And so the more data that AI starts to bring in, specifically from Perkins&Will, from Perkins&Will’s research about our Living Design perspective—it can bring that to a broader audience when they make simple queries about sustainable environments per se, or neurodiversity. I would be just overjoyed if it quoted one of Kati’s articles or some feedback from our client who utilized the toolkit that we have been implementing for workplace projects. And I think this can just be amazing trigger for our imaginations and creativity. That is something that we still very much own as human beings and the cognitive sphere. So we will always have that and I don’t think anything will take that part away from us. So it’s just another wonderful tool in our toolbox.”